Sunday, April 23, 2006
Why Welfare?
Last night I was having a discussion with my good friend B,- where he made reference to
both mowing lawns and changing oil as ‘jobs that you could train a monkey to do.’ We
have a strike going on around here where some of the auto dealership mechanics are
refusing to work in opposition to management devising a new classification of mechanic,
‘light duty’ or some shit.
What B- was saying was that someone who changes oil for a living does not deserve to
earn $20 dollars an hour. There is little intellectual capacity required, thus the labor
should not be valued. I’m afraid he is starting to drift towards some of the comforting
mythologies of the middle class, towards the modern bourgeois. The notion that most
human beings are stupid and could not do the intellectual work that he does.
I’ve met many human beings in my life. I don’t believe that the human capacity for
learning and comprehension varies that much within our species. Sure we have some
retardation and fetal alcohol syndrome, but for at least 80% of the population the
differences in the processor speeds be negligable. Most guys doing roofing could do
computer programming with the proper training and support. The fact is, toilets will
always need to be cleaned. Roofs will always need to be installed.
And why do we assume that someone who changes oil for a full-time job deserves our
disapprobation? Perhaps the reasonable take on the matter is that these guys are eager to
learn more and improve their skillset - and modern auto repair is as least as complicated as
any programming language - but the management would like to keep them ignorant and
pay them poverty wages. Instead of having a system where someone works their way up,
helping the masters and the journeymen while doing the apprentice work that needs to be
done, they create an entire caste that does nothing but the repetitive motions of oil
changes until they don’t fucking care if a lexus drives off sans oil plug.
And why not $20/hour? If a man has children, then $20.00 an hour is about what it
takes in this society. Right now, we live in a society that believes in the welfare state. If
that man and his family are below the poverty level, then you will be paying the difference
in one tax or another. Property taxes to fund the public schools, or to put more cops on
the street. Yep, more cops on the street is in a direct relationship with the payment of a
living wage and the success of a welfare state.
Here’s the rub: I know a lot of folks these days want to say we should just do away with the
notion of the welfare state all together and ‘if they don’t want to work then they can grind
their teeth under the consequences, our society has winners and losers - I’m not going to
feel bad about being a winner.’ There are two major ways to understand a welfare state,
each is equally valid. The first be that we are successful, and out of the kindness of our
hearts we provide some safety net for the less fortunate. This is noble and moral. The
second is that our expenditures into welfare is the modern equivalent of ‘protection’ money
paid to the mob. If you don’t want to give a fuck about other people because it is the right
thing to do, accept that this 'tax' will be taken from you at gunpoint in an ally uptown.
If you want to believe that you deserve you high paying job at Catapillar because you are so
smart, then you have to accept that many members of the ‘lower classes’ have superior
physical strength, agility, and conditioning, not to mention a callous understanding of
violence. You back a dog into a corner; you don’t want to face that dog. You create a
social structure that gives a man no options for peaceful survival - you create crime and
you are specialized in writing code and sitting on your ass, not beating another man’s head
in. . .
There are too many in this society who want to buy into this notion that crime is done by
evil people (or worse, those people) and that the only solution to crime is incarceration for
life where hopefully they will find Jeezus and overcome the demons in their hearts. This is
so childish. This is about how far the majority of Americans have thought it out to.
As our population grows, there will always be the fraction of a percentage who are just
fucked up Jeffery Dahmer types. Can’t do much about them but hope that a successful
social structure will see the red flags and intervene quickly. Drugs will also continue to be
a problem, but as my friend Lamont once put so eloquently, ‘drugs are an escape, why is it
that so many people want to escape from reality all the time.’ Could grinding poverty and
the smoldering rage of an unjust system lead one to that? Or maybe a society that spends
4 plus hours a day in the fantasy escape of television has no moral fucking authority to
judge. Young people take risks all the time, that's the fuel for the evolution machine.
Regardless if you want to consider supporting the welfare state as an act of charity or
supplication to extortion, one really needs to consider the alternatives. One out of every
four children in this country lives below the poverty line. The poverty line is pretty
fucking low. Sure, we could contine along the road to a nation where there is no social
safety net, where those who slip out of the dwindling middle class either end up in prisons,
or working in one. Our country already locks up a larger percentage of our population
than any other nation except for China. Maybe Satan has infected every one of their
souls. Or maybe they just don’t feel like they have chance, they can’t find a job that pays
shit. They can’t seem to find a path to respect - instead one feels the sawing at one’s
manhood in the insinuations that ‘any monkey could do that work.’ Why not a gang,
where respect is taken and earned? Why not say ‘fuck you,’ to a society that does not
want to devote a fair percentage of its wealth into a national healthcare system or fair,
living wages. Why not go out with a band, instead of a whimper? Why not crime?
As the First Liberal sayeth, ‘you reap what you sow.’
both mowing lawns and changing oil as ‘jobs that you could train a monkey to do.’ We
have a strike going on around here where some of the auto dealership mechanics are
refusing to work in opposition to management devising a new classification of mechanic,
‘light duty’ or some shit.
What B- was saying was that someone who changes oil for a living does not deserve to
earn $20 dollars an hour. There is little intellectual capacity required, thus the labor
should not be valued. I’m afraid he is starting to drift towards some of the comforting
mythologies of the middle class, towards the modern bourgeois. The notion that most
human beings are stupid and could not do the intellectual work that he does.
I’ve met many human beings in my life. I don’t believe that the human capacity for
learning and comprehension varies that much within our species. Sure we have some
retardation and fetal alcohol syndrome, but for at least 80% of the population the
differences in the processor speeds be negligable. Most guys doing roofing could do
computer programming with the proper training and support. The fact is, toilets will
always need to be cleaned. Roofs will always need to be installed.
And why do we assume that someone who changes oil for a full-time job deserves our
disapprobation? Perhaps the reasonable take on the matter is that these guys are eager to
learn more and improve their skillset - and modern auto repair is as least as complicated as
any programming language - but the management would like to keep them ignorant and
pay them poverty wages. Instead of having a system where someone works their way up,
helping the masters and the journeymen while doing the apprentice work that needs to be
done, they create an entire caste that does nothing but the repetitive motions of oil
changes until they don’t fucking care if a lexus drives off sans oil plug.
And why not $20/hour? If a man has children, then $20.00 an hour is about what it
takes in this society. Right now, we live in a society that believes in the welfare state. If
that man and his family are below the poverty level, then you will be paying the difference
in one tax or another. Property taxes to fund the public schools, or to put more cops on
the street. Yep, more cops on the street is in a direct relationship with the payment of a
living wage and the success of a welfare state.
Here’s the rub: I know a lot of folks these days want to say we should just do away with the
notion of the welfare state all together and ‘if they don’t want to work then they can grind
their teeth under the consequences, our society has winners and losers - I’m not going to
feel bad about being a winner.’ There are two major ways to understand a welfare state,
each is equally valid. The first be that we are successful, and out of the kindness of our
hearts we provide some safety net for the less fortunate. This is noble and moral. The
second is that our expenditures into welfare is the modern equivalent of ‘protection’ money
paid to the mob. If you don’t want to give a fuck about other people because it is the right
thing to do, accept that this 'tax' will be taken from you at gunpoint in an ally uptown.
If you want to believe that you deserve you high paying job at Catapillar because you are so
smart, then you have to accept that many members of the ‘lower classes’ have superior
physical strength, agility, and conditioning, not to mention a callous understanding of
violence. You back a dog into a corner; you don’t want to face that dog. You create a
social structure that gives a man no options for peaceful survival - you create crime and
you are specialized in writing code and sitting on your ass, not beating another man’s head
in. . .
There are too many in this society who want to buy into this notion that crime is done by
evil people (or worse, those people) and that the only solution to crime is incarceration for
life where hopefully they will find Jeezus and overcome the demons in their hearts. This is
so childish. This is about how far the majority of Americans have thought it out to.
As our population grows, there will always be the fraction of a percentage who are just
fucked up Jeffery Dahmer types. Can’t do much about them but hope that a successful
social structure will see the red flags and intervene quickly. Drugs will also continue to be
a problem, but as my friend Lamont once put so eloquently, ‘drugs are an escape, why is it
that so many people want to escape from reality all the time.’ Could grinding poverty and
the smoldering rage of an unjust system lead one to that? Or maybe a society that spends
4 plus hours a day in the fantasy escape of television has no moral fucking authority to
judge. Young people take risks all the time, that's the fuel for the evolution machine.
Regardless if you want to consider supporting the welfare state as an act of charity or
supplication to extortion, one really needs to consider the alternatives. One out of every
four children in this country lives below the poverty line. The poverty line is pretty
fucking low. Sure, we could contine along the road to a nation where there is no social
safety net, where those who slip out of the dwindling middle class either end up in prisons,
or working in one. Our country already locks up a larger percentage of our population
than any other nation except for China. Maybe Satan has infected every one of their
souls. Or maybe they just don’t feel like they have chance, they can’t find a job that pays
shit. They can’t seem to find a path to respect - instead one feels the sawing at one’s
manhood in the insinuations that ‘any monkey could do that work.’ Why not a gang,
where respect is taken and earned? Why not say ‘fuck you,’ to a society that does not
want to devote a fair percentage of its wealth into a national healthcare system or fair,
living wages. Why not go out with a band, instead of a whimper? Why not crime?
As the First Liberal sayeth, ‘you reap what you sow.’
Comments:
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That was a thought-provoking post.
I think that many in the American meritocracy devalue people who do physical labor. I wonder if they realize that they could not do what they do were physical laborers not doing their jobs. In addition, what makes computer programming, lawyering or being a business executive superior to mechanics, road builders, etc.?
America has always had a class system but the knowledge workers of today seem intent on exacerbating it. This is why I look longingly to Canada.
I think that many in the American meritocracy devalue people who do physical labor. I wonder if they realize that they could not do what they do were physical laborers not doing their jobs. In addition, what makes computer programming, lawyering or being a business executive superior to mechanics, road builders, etc.?
America has always had a class system but the knowledge workers of today seem intent on exacerbating it. This is why I look longingly to Canada.
great post..
i bet the mechanics in texas were wishing they GOT $20 an hour to change oil...most of the places around here pay minimum wages or a little above for those types of jobs..$20 an hour..they would change your oil, wash your car and drive your kids to school....maybe that is why we have so many mexicans doing that kind of work here...
i bet the mechanics in texas were wishing they GOT $20 an hour to change oil...most of the places around here pay minimum wages or a little above for those types of jobs..$20 an hour..they would change your oil, wash your car and drive your kids to school....maybe that is why we have so many mexicans doing that kind of work here...
4 - 8 years of school makes the jobs superior, the fact that most of them paid their own way or are neck deep in student loans for the next 15 years, while it takes almost no effort to learn how to change oil.
I agree, its not because people in positions like that are stupid, they usually lack the drive to get something better.
There is a class system, but you are mobile and people prove this every day, new millionairs from parents who worked in factories and poor spoiled brats squadering their inheritence. Class isn't bad as long a mobilty isn't stifled but it shouldn't be given to you.
Just an example, would you work 1 year 12 hours a day 6 days a week as a ditch digger if it meant a loved one could get a lifesaving operation? Now reverse it, say you went to college for 8 years spent 2 years as an intern and became a doctor. Would you work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for a year to get a ditch dug?
Certain professions pay more becasue we value positions that require a drive to get to that position, they sacrafice more along the way. they studied hard in high school, they went to college, the got the internship and they applied themselves and got the job that lets them save lives.
There is nothing wrong with changing oil but it shouldn't be what somebody aspires to be. When Doctors and oil changers make the same amount of money we will see a lot less doctors and a lot more oil changers.
Thought provoking, but I don't agree.
I agree, its not because people in positions like that are stupid, they usually lack the drive to get something better.
There is a class system, but you are mobile and people prove this every day, new millionairs from parents who worked in factories and poor spoiled brats squadering their inheritence. Class isn't bad as long a mobilty isn't stifled but it shouldn't be given to you.
Just an example, would you work 1 year 12 hours a day 6 days a week as a ditch digger if it meant a loved one could get a lifesaving operation? Now reverse it, say you went to college for 8 years spent 2 years as an intern and became a doctor. Would you work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for a year to get a ditch dug?
Certain professions pay more becasue we value positions that require a drive to get to that position, they sacrafice more along the way. they studied hard in high school, they went to college, the got the internship and they applied themselves and got the job that lets them save lives.
There is nothing wrong with changing oil but it shouldn't be what somebody aspires to be. When Doctors and oil changers make the same amount of money we will see a lot less doctors and a lot more oil changers.
Thought provoking, but I don't agree.
# posted by 
: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:45:00 AM
: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:45:00 AM
To Anon-
I don't believe I ever stated that doctors should make the same as 'professional oil changers' or grave diggers. In fact, I tried to outline a union model where someone who did the oil changing would also be working their way up the skillset food chain to master mechanic.
Doctors are a fine example of a noble profession, and I don't have a problem with them being handsomely compensated (esp. since my brother is married to one. . .) Also, I won't soon forget the inspirational stories of docs in Katrina who refused to evacuate and were feeding themselves with IV's while they continued their duties.
I also dislike the notion you make that if (and again, I never posited this) doctors and professional oil changers made the same amount of money, then nobody would go into medicine. Just because we are told we live in a capitalist system does not mean we have to pretend that money is the greatest motivator of people. Most people - aside from the Jeffery Dahmer types - want to do meaningful work and improve society. Young people especially, tend to be very Idealistic. Aside from the college republicans, money is not #1
Just look at the huge numbers of young people who go into social services or teaching. They know that they are not going to get rich - or even have job security. They make those choices for other reasons.
I don't believe I ever stated that doctors should make the same as 'professional oil changers' or grave diggers. In fact, I tried to outline a union model where someone who did the oil changing would also be working their way up the skillset food chain to master mechanic.
Doctors are a fine example of a noble profession, and I don't have a problem with them being handsomely compensated (esp. since my brother is married to one. . .) Also, I won't soon forget the inspirational stories of docs in Katrina who refused to evacuate and were feeding themselves with IV's while they continued their duties.
I also dislike the notion you make that if (and again, I never posited this) doctors and professional oil changers made the same amount of money, then nobody would go into medicine. Just because we are told we live in a capitalist system does not mean we have to pretend that money is the greatest motivator of people. Most people - aside from the Jeffery Dahmer types - want to do meaningful work and improve society. Young people especially, tend to be very Idealistic. Aside from the college republicans, money is not #1
Just look at the huge numbers of young people who go into social services or teaching. They know that they are not going to get rich - or even have job security. They make those choices for other reasons.
No, and I appologize most of my statement was in response to comfort addict. You don't run a message board but it was his(her) post that prompted 95% my response.
# posted by : Monday, April 24, 2006 10:47:00 AM
: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:47:00 AM
First, as heartless as this might sound, the employer is under no obligation to train the oil changer. If someone hires on to just change oil, they generally understand that is what they will do. Smart employers might offer incentives to retain good people, but a lot don't. It's my position that people will attain as much as they want. In America, their is no dream. There never has been a "dream". One will never get what they want simply by dreaming. One attains the American "dream" usually by working hard.
If you want to make it, you can. You have to be willing to work hard, but the ooportunities are there. Sure. some folks are born into privilege, but there are an awdful lot of folks who got there by being willing to work the overtime and burn the midnight oil studying for an exam.
The second thing is this absolutely bankrupt idea that poverty causes crime. I've been poor. I've been dirt poor and hungry but I never resorted to crime. I kept working and bettering myself. If you think crime is caused by poverty, then one only has to look at the NFL and Enron. The type of crimes might differ, i.e. street crimes vs. white collar, but criminal behavior is irrespective of class and income level.
VW
If you want to make it, you can. You have to be willing to work hard, but the ooportunities are there. Sure. some folks are born into privilege, but there are an awdful lot of folks who got there by being willing to work the overtime and burn the midnight oil studying for an exam.
The second thing is this absolutely bankrupt idea that poverty causes crime. I've been poor. I've been dirt poor and hungry but I never resorted to crime. I kept working and bettering myself. If you think crime is caused by poverty, then one only has to look at the NFL and Enron. The type of crimes might differ, i.e. street crimes vs. white collar, but criminal behavior is irrespective of class and income level.
VW
everyone thinks that everyone else makes too much money. except for themselves, of course.
when the grocery strike was going on in Southern CA a couple years ago, someone wrote to the letters to the editor of the paper that she was shocked, shocked, I tell you! that the produce man there was making 18 dollars an hour. She said this was an outrage!
Why?
The way that I look at it, my community is better off with well paid people with good benefits living here.
Call me crazy.
Why do members of the middle class want to shrink the middle class?
when the grocery strike was going on in Southern CA a couple years ago, someone wrote to the letters to the editor of the paper that she was shocked, shocked, I tell you! that the produce man there was making 18 dollars an hour. She said this was an outrage!
Why?
The way that I look at it, my community is better off with well paid people with good benefits living here.
Call me crazy.
Why do members of the middle class want to shrink the middle class?
This has to be one of the best debates my blog has had since I left blogster and moved onto Blogger.
Violence Worker (whose initialism is generating no small amount of amusement with me) begins with Ayn Rand fantasy that the employer is not required to train and 'oil changer' in any skills whatsoever. That's the whole difference between an employer driven workplace and a union driven workplace. In the achetypical modal, the employer is of a 'higher' class, for him/her to give a fuck about you is pure wishful thinking. When the unions are involved, they almost always incorporate a structure where newbies work with experienced workers and gain new skills. The problem arises when the 'management class' screws us over and tries to outlaw organizing - like Paul Bremer did in Iraq, it is illegal to be a member of a union in Iraq. What does that tell you about their agenda?
His second paragrab makes the assertion that if you want it bad enough you can earn it, in America. Must be nice to believe in that. Society is a bit more complicated than a belief that the most intelligent/motivated will achieve. I guess that means that the fact that we have never had a woman or a minority President means that there has never been a member of either group that 'wanted' it bad enough. Yeah, where you come from don't mean shit, if you ain't rich then you ain't a good American.
His final point be his weakest of all, dispite what ninth grade comp will tell ya. No connection between crime and poverty? I'm inclined to believe him when he says he's been poor and all that; there is a difference between being so poor you choose crime, and being so poor you hustle. NFL crime? Those who are starving in a society without opportunity, and those who think laws are meant for others be two diffent types of crime.
Crime is in no way 'irrespective of class or income level.' Never read Les Miserables? I'm sure if VW took some time to consider his positions he'd see that they don't make much sense. Aside from glorifying a fictional 'self' that 'pulled himself up by the bootstraps,' and never considered crime; what's the sharp part of his arguement? That he can repeat some radio hosts talking points?
Grr. . .
Violence Worker (whose initialism is generating no small amount of amusement with me) begins with Ayn Rand fantasy that the employer is not required to train and 'oil changer' in any skills whatsoever. That's the whole difference between an employer driven workplace and a union driven workplace. In the achetypical modal, the employer is of a 'higher' class, for him/her to give a fuck about you is pure wishful thinking. When the unions are involved, they almost always incorporate a structure where newbies work with experienced workers and gain new skills. The problem arises when the 'management class' screws us over and tries to outlaw organizing - like Paul Bremer did in Iraq, it is illegal to be a member of a union in Iraq. What does that tell you about their agenda?
His second paragrab makes the assertion that if you want it bad enough you can earn it, in America. Must be nice to believe in that. Society is a bit more complicated than a belief that the most intelligent/motivated will achieve. I guess that means that the fact that we have never had a woman or a minority President means that there has never been a member of either group that 'wanted' it bad enough. Yeah, where you come from don't mean shit, if you ain't rich then you ain't a good American.
His final point be his weakest of all, dispite what ninth grade comp will tell ya. No connection between crime and poverty? I'm inclined to believe him when he says he's been poor and all that; there is a difference between being so poor you choose crime, and being so poor you hustle. NFL crime? Those who are starving in a society without opportunity, and those who think laws are meant for others be two diffent types of crime.
Crime is in no way 'irrespective of class or income level.' Never read Les Miserables? I'm sure if VW took some time to consider his positions he'd see that they don't make much sense. Aside from glorifying a fictional 'self' that 'pulled himself up by the bootstraps,' and never considered crime; what's the sharp part of his arguement? That he can repeat some radio hosts talking points?
Grr. . .
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# posted by : Monday, April 23, 2007 11:22:00 PM
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